Monbiot.com » Right and Wrong

I know we have a few denizens of the lands down under (I include New Zeland in that) so I thought there might be some interest in this analysis by George Monbiot of the recent national elections in Australia.

Apropos for this blog his take is all about climate change policy. Be sure to read to the end for this well supported clincher: “Right-wingers are making monkeys of themselves over climate change not just because their beliefs take precedence over the evidence, but also because their interests take precedence over their beliefs.” Amen!

Mandas, crakar, Deepwater, adelady, does he get things right?

63 thoughts on “Monbiot.com » Right and Wrong

  1. In light of the above i retract all statements that may express this view as Dingos are indeed an introduced species dispite what the NSW government has to say.

    No. NSW *agrees* they are introduced. Did it dawn on you that maybe they used the word “native” loosely–the way some people loosely use the term “native” to describe Nevada wild horses–even though they were introduced by humans 500 years ago?

    And now look how you’ve sunk even lower. Now whenever you cite something your essential message is, “This link proves me right–unless it contradicts me, in which case its bullshit. Either way I’m right.”

    This btw, is exactly what you get from climate change deniers in the end. In my experience it always comes to this. Just start linking to blogs and bullshit with the proviso that they stand by it unless it turns against them in which case they disavow it.

    Dingos are probably only vaguely connected to climate change, but your posture on the subject is yet again a revealing insight into the mind of a climate change denier.

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  2. Chris

    I am sure both P. padus and P. Spinosa occur over much of Australia, its just that they aren’t considered particularly invasive or that much of a concern. I am sure they are even grown as ornamental plants in a lot of suburban gardens, which would be allowed because they aren’t declared as noxious.

    Skip

    It is common usage to describe dingoes as native, even though it is clear that they aren’t – as there is no doubt they were deliberately introduced by humans. Its more a ‘Eurocentric’ view of the world. We ascribe the actions of aboriginal humans as being ‘natural’, while those of us late comers as being not natural. Its a very poor view of the environment, as well as being decidedly racist.

    If you were to describe dingoes as native, then if you were to wait a few years you would be equally able to use the same term to describe feral cats or rabbits (or dozens of other species, all of which were deliberately introduced by humans, and which have now readily adapted to the Australian environment. Anyone can see that is nonsence, but because of blinkered views people try to suggest that introductions by aboriginals which occurred before Europeans arrived as being somehow different. They aren’t.

    Feral cats and foxes, as introduced predators, are causing enormous damage to the exiting faunal population of Australia. Dingoes did exactly the same, only a few thousand years ago. Every wildlife scientist knows that – you might say there is consensus – its just that the ignorant general population doesn’t and thinks they know better.

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  3. So at point in the past can you draw a line in the sand and say every that arrived beyond this date is introduced?

    Do we say that everything here before the northern land bridge to Asia was severed is natural and every thing since is introduced? Please explain.

    Skip,

    Let us assume for the moment that the NSW govt (having said the Dingo is a native animal even though they did not really mean that because they actually meant it is introduced but said it was native anyway)are wrong or right depending on whether they really meant what they said or not……………That is about as much sense as your last post made.

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  4. crakar

    This is really really simple, and it would be obvious if you read my post.

    If humans deliberately introduced it into the environment it is – wait for this – introduced. If it arrived under its own steam or evolved here it is native. It does not matter when it occurred.

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  5. I had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine over the weekend, not sure what your role is in culling Dingoes Mandas but this guy does the actual poisoning. I asked him his thoughts on native V introduced and simply replied with “you cant keep protected species as a pet”. So if i had a Dingo and they did DNA tests to prove it was a Dingo then i would be in a world of hurt. But of course he is no expert unlike yourself.

    He also reminded me that all the Koalas on Kangaroo Island were introduced oh and all the Koalas in the Adelaide hills were introduced aswell, but as i said he is no expert unlike yourself.

    I guess he is just another FM.

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  6. “…..I had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine over the weekend….”

    You have friends?

    “…. I asked him his thoughts on native V introduced and simply replied with “you cant keep protected species as a pet”….”

    So ummmm – he said it was native did he? Oh wait…….

    “…..He also reminded me that all the Koalas on Kangaroo Island were introduced oh and all the Koalas in the Adelaide hills were introduced aswell….”

    And your point would be…..??????

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  7. Oh, and crakar, you might wish to have a chat to your ‘friend’ about this statement:

    “….you cant keep protected species as a pet…”

    Monty, my pet carpet python (yeah, I know, its an unimaginative name), might disagree with you.

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  8. Yes i do have friends (how did i know you would say something like that)

    Yes he said “in his opinion” they were and if you have one as a pet then you will be fined etc. It comes as no surprise that you have a pet snake but do remember you can get a license to keep certain animals as pets, the dingo is not one of them of course.

    My point is the Koala can also be considered as introduced depending on what geographical location you are talking about.

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  9. crakar

    “…..but do remember you can get a license to keep certain animals as pets, the dingo is not one of them of course…..”

    Depends on what state you live in. You can keep dingoes as pets in certain parts of NSW and there are moves to do the same in WA. And the ‘status’ of the dingo also varies from state to state. As I have been saying on numerous occasions, the dingo is BIOLOGICALLY an introduced animal, and no person knowledgeable on the issue would disagree with that fact. However, it is LEGALLY considered native in some parts of the country, but not native in others. It is also protected in some parts of the country, unprotected in some others, considered an invasive pest in others, and even considered a ‘declared animal’ in others – which mandates its control. Perhaps if you read a little more widely on the subject rather than just trying to score points, as futile as that may be. You are sitting in front of a computer why don’t you try it. Go ahead, type ‘dingo legal status’ or ‘dingo pet’ or something similar.

    “…My point is the Koala can also be considered as introduced depending on what geographical location you are talking about….”

    I doubt that anyone would argue with you – which of course is what I have been saying to you all along. Go back and read post #54 again, where I said exactly that. Thanks for finally agreeing with me.

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  10. You are sitting in front of a computer why don’t you try it. Go ahead, type ‘dingo legal status’ or ‘dingo pet’ or something similar.

    I did do that remember but you said the NSW government dont know shit from clay.

    Like

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